Kaminski: Who can measure such a thing? I don’t think anyone can ever say any two films or one film is the best this or that; when people ask me my favorite film I tell them it’s Star Wars, and it probably is, I’ve spent more time watching and thinking about than anything else, but I tend to rank films in groups rather than individuals. Alien, Blade Runner, Rashomon, Chungking Express and Terminator are films I all place in the same echelon as Star Wars, but Star Wars is a lot more significant because of its impact on pop culture, technology and business, but depending on the day I’d rather watch something like Road Warrior or Spaceballs, right? But, in terms of sequels, most are not as good as the original—they made a sequel because the first one was good to begin with, right, but how can you guarantee that will repeat? You can’t. It’s exceptional, and half the time it’s partly accidental. Such is the case with Empire. Lucas didn’t want it to be as adult and mature as it—Kasdan, Kurtz and Kershner kind of did that in spite of his wishes, and that’s why he reacted with the level of control he had on Jedi. It wasn’t supposed to be THAT slow, that lyrical, they weren’t supposed to take THAT much time getting the performances and shots right—that’s why they went way over budget and schedule! From a producer’s point of view it was a total disaster. Kurtz realized that it was all for the best, but for Lucas it was irresponsible—he was the one paying the bill…. People say lightning never strikes the same place twice, and people say capturing the “magic” of something is like capturing lightning in a bottle. It can be done, because that expression is scientifically inaccurate, it’s just incredibly difficult. But there are a few films that fall into the category of “sequels that live up to or surpass the original,” and usually the films are very different from the first one, and Empire falls into that category. Wrath of Khan, Godfather II, T2, Aliens, Road Warrior, Dark Knight. It’s usually the same couple of movies you see referenced. I don’t know if Empire is a better movie than Godfather II because they are so different, and that’s the same reason why I don’t know if Empire is better than Star Wars. Instead, I simply enjoy the fact that we got the two best version of different sides of the same coin…. If you want to spend two hours at the playground, see Star Wars. If you want to see that film reach adulthood, Empire’s pretty close. Children need to grow up but adults also need to learn how to play, so it’s incredible to have both options depending on your mood.
Matessino: I hold the original Star Wars in such high regard—way above Empire—that I can’t necessarily say it’s the best sequel ever made. But it’s probably the best next Star Wars movie that could have been made following the original. It did what the best sequels do, which is add new layers to its predecessor while also establishing a foundation for an ongoing storyline and overall arc.
Coate: Was it a good idea for Lucas & Co. to decide to use an episode number and subtitle?
Hearn: The decision had already been made to change the titles of Star Wars to read Episode IV, so by 1980 we knew this was part of a series. Given Empire’s open ending I think it was important to do this.
Matessino: Something I don’t think has been discussed much is that Lucas’ original intention of putting Episode IV on the first Star Wars movie was sort of a subtle joke. The whole thing was meant to be an homage to the Flash Gordon serials and the audience was supposed to feel like they were seeing a random chapter. In the end, Fox asked Lucas to take it off so that audiences would not be confused by it. But, of course, once the movie was successful and there was going to be a sequel, George took the gamble of adding Episode V to the Empire crawl…and it was a gamble because he made the picture with his own money, so there was a lot riding on its success. There was an attempt to explain the Episode V crawl in various publications at the time, but a lot of people were still initially confused by it. The following year, they updated the original Star Wars to say Episode IV: A New Hope for its reissue, but the most ardent fans already knew that title from the published script that was in the book The Art of Star Wars, which I believe came out in 1979. So with Empire, George was at least committed to finish the trilogy. But even if he never went back to make episodes I through III I think it would have been okay. He could have simply said that the original intent was to create the sense that you were seeing a few episodes of a serial and that audiences could simply wonder about what had come before. But in the end he was able to get the prequels made and so it all worked out.
Coate: Which version of Empire do you like best: the 1980 original or the 1997 Special Edition? In what way did the Special Edition changes improve the movie?
Bouzereau: I don’t have a preference, except that I saw the Special Edition at the Mann Chinese with Irvin Kershner who I got to know when I wrote my book, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays. That was pretty awesome.
Hearn: I seem to recall there is relatively little that is radically new in the special edition—principally the scene in the ice cave. The Special Edition is the version George Lucas wants us to see, and that’s fine by me.
Johnson: I honestly don’t care for ANY of the changes made in the Special Editions. At the same time I think it’s childish to attack George for trying the things he tried. Some worked fairly well. Some didn’t at all. But so what? If you don’t like them, don’t watch them. Stanley Kubrick used to do “special editions” of his films, often during the first WEEK of a release, by calling up the theaters and giving the projectionists a list of edits he wanted done. So, what. A director should have the right to tinker with his work. Nobody who’s watched the 23 different cuts of Blade Runner has ever claimed Ridley Scott destroyed their childhood.
Kaminski: Does anyone really like the Special Edition of ANY of the movies? Let them be what they are…. I will say this. Empire is the least affected of any of the films. It’s the only film where watching the SE is not a chore in tolerance. The new Emperor makes sense; I prefer the original, but that’s probably nostalgia talking. I also prefer the old wampa because it scared me as a kid, but honestly it’s just a lump of fur dollying past the camera and who the hell can tell what is happening? Cloud City looks great, and it’s so restrained and tasteful, it’s not gratuitous at all, it’s the sort of thing Irvin Kershner would have wanted to have done in the first place (and he’s said as much as well)…. The redone matte lines in the walker sequence and asteroid sequence are a godsend. Those sequences look deceivingly ahead-of-their-time, and that’s one thing I hate about the Special Editions—the films may look BETTER, and younger fans may say, “wow, these films were more advanced than I thought!” But it’s all a lie. The films had ugly matte lines and dupe grain from the optical composites, and the color grading would shift green and pink as a result as well. And that’s okay! They are old films! I think people should appreciate them for what they are. To me it’s like saying, “well, I always put up with my daughter’s face but after that nose job I can’t ever picture her any way!” I don’t hear people complaining about fixing the jittery stop motion in King Kong. And, wait, didn’t George Lucas testify before Congress to get people to stop colorizing black-and-white films to make them more modern?.... But now I’m going on and on like an angry old man. The Special Edition of Empire is the least-botched plastic surgery job of the original trilogy and succeeds in most places. But re-dubbing Boba Fett and the total PACE-RUINING re-edit of Vader getting to his shuttle break the deal for me. I had no problem with Empire before. I appreciate that you improved the picture, but it didn’t need improving, and you also added things that depreciate the film, so the net result is a loss, right? I’ll watch the Special Edition, but I don’t prefer it. The fact that so little was changed in comparison to the other films says so much about it: they got it right in the first place.
Matessino: I definitely prefer the original, but some of the cleaned-up effects were nice to see and unobjectionable. I was also pleased that they put back the transitions to the Imperial Starfleet that restored the music that John Williams had originally written for them. Of course, the Special Edition release of the original trilogy is also what brought me the opportunity to work on the expanded score releases. The Empire score had an interesting history. It was initially released as a two-LP set, but later that was reduced to a single LP and when the first CD came out they released only that version. Then in 1993, Nick Redman produced a box set which put out most of the material from the original LP plus some of the previously unreleased music. For the 1997 release we included everything. Relatively speaking that was dark ages compared to how we worked later on soundtrack restorations, so I hope to someday be able to go back and improve it further. But for now it’s at least great to have the entire score available and it’s interesting in that it contains a lot of material that was not used in the picture. It definitely stands on its own as a musical version of the story, very operatic and varied in style, and, in fact, quite different from the score for the original Star Wars.
Coate: What is the legacy of The Empire Strikes Back?
Bouzereau: Like everything else related to Star Wars, it transcends cinema. It’s part of our culture.
Hearn: It proved that Star Wars was bigger than its creator, and that its creator was big enough to encourage other directors’ interpretations of his remarkable ideas.
Johnson: I would say that without it having been made, exactly the way it was, there would never have been an Episode VI. And the rest, as Hamlet said, would have been silence…
Matessino: The Empire Strikes Back proved that a sequel did not have to rehash the original in any way and could still be artistically and financially successful. It’s also a great example of how a sequel can bring a different look and tone to an established storyline and still work both as a standalone piece of cinema and as one piece of a larger work.
Coate: Thank you, everyone, for participating and for sharing your thoughts about The Empire Strikes Back on the occasion of its 35th anniversary.
---END INTERVIEW---
PRINCIPAL CAST & CREW:
- Luke Skywalker – Mark Hamill
- Han Solo – Harrison Ford
- Princess Leia – Carrie Fisher
- Lando Calrissian – Billy Dee Williams
- C-3PO – Anthony Daniels
- Darth Vader – David Prowse
- Chewbacca – Peter Mayhew
- R2-D2 – Kenny Baker
- Yoda – Frank Oz
- Director – Irvin Kershner
- Producer – Gary Kurtz
- Screenplay – Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan (Screenplay), George Lucas (Story)
- Executive Producer – George Lucas
- Production Designer – Norman Reynolds
- Director of Photography – Peter Suschitzky, BSC
- Editor – Paul Hirsch, ACE
- Special Visual Effects – Brian Johnson, Richard Edlund
- Music – John Williams
- Associate Producers – Robert Watts, James Bloom
- Design Consultant and Conceptual Artist – Ralph McQuarrie
- Make-up and Special Creature Design – Stuart Freeborn
- Costume Designer – John Mollo
- Sound Design and Supervising Sound Effects Editor – Ben Burtt
- Production Sound – Peter Sutton
- Re-Recording – Bill Varney, Steve Maslow, Gregg Landaker
- Distributor – 20th Century-Fox
- Production Company – Lucasfilm Ltd.
- Release Date – May 21, 1980
- Running Time – 124 minutes
- Projection Format – Scope
- Sound Format – Dolby Stereo
- MPAA Rating – PG
SPECIAL THANKS:
Jerry Alexander, Laura Baas, Jim Barg, Laurent Bouzereau, Raymond Caple, Bill Duelly, Mike Durrett, Marcus Hearn, Bobby Henderson, Mike Hensley, Patrick Read Johnson, Michael Kaminski, Brian Kiss, Bill Kretzel, Ronald A. Lee, Mark Lensenmayer, Victor Liorentas, Stan Malone, Monty Marin, Mike Matessino, Deborah May, Joseph McBride, Tim O’Neill, Lee Pfeiffer, Melissa Scroggins, Desirée Sharland, Joel Weide, Vince Young, and a huge thank-you to all of the librarians who helped with the research for this project.
SOURCES/REFERENCES:
Primary references for this project were hundreds of daily newspapers archived on microfilm. Periodicals referenced included American Cinematographer, Bantha Tracks, Boxoffice, Cinefantastique, The Hollywood Reporter, Newsweek, Rolling Stone, Starlog, Time, and Variety. Film industry documents referenced included Dolby Stereo installation records, circa 1980. Books referenced included George Lucas: The Creative Impulse by Charles Champlin (1992, Abrams), George Lucas’s Blockbusting: A Decade-By-Decade Survey of Timeless Movies Including Untold Secrets of their Financial and Cultural Success edited by Alex Ben Block and Lucy Autrey Wilson (2010, George Lucas Books/HarperCollins), The Hollywood Reporter Book of Box Office Hits by Susan Sackett (1996, Billboard), The Making of The Empire Strikes Back by Jonathan Rinzler (2010, Ballantine/Del Rey), The Movie Business Book edited by Jason E. Squire (1983, Fireside), Once Upon A Galaxy: A Journal of the Making of The Empire Strikes Back by Alan Arnold (1980, Del Rey/Ballantine), Skywalking: The Life and Films of George Lucas by Dale Pollack (1983, Harmony). The following films were referenced: Empire of Dreams: The Story of the Star Wars Trilogy (2004, Prometheus Entertainment/Fox Television/Lucasfilm Ltd.), The Empire Strikes Back (1980, 1997, Lucasfilm Ltd./20th Century-Fox/Disney) and SP FX: The Empire Strikes Back (1980, Lucasfilm Ltd./CBS-Fox Video). Websites referenced include BoxOfficeMojo, CinemaTour, CinemaTreasures, FromScriptToDVD, and In70mm. This is a revised and updated version of a previously-published article.
SELECTED IMAGES:
Copyright 1980, 1997 Lucasfilm Ltd./20th Century Fox/Disney
All figures and data included in this article pertain to the United States & Canada except where stated otherwise.
IN MEMORIAM:
- Leigh Brackett (Screenwriter), 1915-1978
- John Barry (Second Unit Director), 1935-1979
- Jack Purvis (“Chief Ugnaught”), 1937-1997
- Alec Guiness (“Ben ‘Obi-Wan’ Kenobi”), 1914-2000
- Terry Liebling (Casting), 1942-2001
- Des Webb (“Snow Creature”), 1932-2002
- Bruce Boa (“General Rieekan”), 1930-2004
- Peter Diamond (Stunt Coordinator), 1929-2004
- John Hollis (“Lando’s Aide”), 1931-2005
- Michael Sheard (“Admiral Ozzel”), 1938-2005
- David Tomblin (First Assistant Director), 1930-2005
- Peter Sutton (Production Sound), 19??-2008
- Irvin Kershner (Director), 1923-2010
- Bill Varney (Re-Recording Mixer), 1934-2011
- Ralph McQuarrie (Design Consultant and Conceptual Artist), 1929-2012
- Stuart Freeborn (Make-up and Special Creature Design), 1914-2013
- Christopher Malcolm (“Zev (Rogue 2)”), 1946-2014
- Michael Coate
